Episode 50 - Mentorship in Construction: The Contractor Coalition's Collaborative Approach
Episode #50 | Brad Leavitt & Nick Schiffer | The Contractor Coalition's Collaborative Approach
In this dynamic episode of The Curious Builder, we dive into the details of the Contractor Coalition Summit, with industry powerhouses Brad Leavitt and Nick Schiffer sharing invaluable insights on mentorship, industry growth, and the magic of collaboration. We also get a peek into the power of seminars for personal and professional development, the shift toward a more open and supportive building community, and the influence of social media and networking in shaping successful careers. Grab your notebook (or 87 pages of it!), because this is one episode jam-packed with wisdom nuggets on growing your business by leaning on and learning from others in the game.
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About Contractor Coalition Summit
Nick is a co-host of an intimate, four-day event alongside Brad Leavitt of AFT Construction and Morgan Moliter of construction2style. Nick, Brad and Morgan are three individualized brand founders, ranging in their areas of expertise and their locations, with a unified knowledge on what it takes to run a profitable company.
Nick Schiffer started NS Builders in 2014, but his story begins much earlier. Even as a kid, he loved working with his hands—tinkering with a bike, building a mini-empire with Lincoln Logs, figuring out how to put things back together after ripping them apart. At age 11, Nick was already working in his Dad’s fencing business. Attending a vocational school marked a turning point—two classes, in particular, would profoundly impact Nick’s career path. Cabinet making and house carpentry shop fueled his passion for all things construction, and from then on, Nick knew exactly what he wanted to do with his life—build houses. Really amazing houses.
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Mark D. Williams
All right. Welcome to the curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today I'm joined with Nick Schiffer with NS builders and modern craftsman and Brad love it from EFT construction and the Brad lead podcast. Welcome, guys.
Nick Schiffer 0:09
Thanks, man. Good to be here.
Mark D. Williams<br> 0:12
Well, Brad is no stranger to the pod but Nick this your first time on the the curious builder. So welcome. For those that don't know, Brad, you can obviously listen to one of his earlier episodes, I think it was like episode five. And you guys are both podcast senseis in the space. So you probably don't need much of an introduction, as you're very well known. I thought we spend most of the time talking about your development of the contractor coalition. So if you guys could maybe introduce yourself just briefly. And then tell us a little bit about the contractor Coalition, which is really how I met the both of you two years ago now. Yeah, Brad, you
Nick Schiffer 0:45
go. Medical? Oh,
Brad Leavitt 0:46
okay. Okay, here we go. So I'm Brad love it. You know, I own a construction company here in Scottsdale, Arizona. You know, we focus on luxury construction, for the most part, we've grown over time, 27 employees now and work on projects from you know, 3000 to 35,000 square feet and have done some building science homes net zero, and of course, podcasts and other media. And then we'll get into why we started the summit and kind of the relationship Nick and I've had for a long time now. So yeah,
Nick Schiffer 1:16
and I'm Nick Schiffer. In Boston own a construction company focused on luxury or high end homes, primarily custom, we do a lot of renovation just being in the city of Boston. But we're also dipping our toes into the development side of high end single families. And, of course, the modern craftsman podcast and kind of everything that goes along with that in terms of thought leadership within the construction and building industry. So when we
Mark D. Williams<br> 1:44
met two years ago, I believe that was in Nashville, and that was your first event, the contractor coalition. So it was a three day event. For those that aren't familiar with it, we'll we'll have you guys explain a little bit more about what it is. But let's go back a little bit of how it even started. My understanding is the both of you were in the same builder, 20. Group, is that where it started?
Brad Leavitt 2:03
Yeah, and maybe I'll take the lead Nick here. But Nick and I have known each other for a long time. In fact, we met through Instagram, most likely, and then we've met at different events. And, you know, Nick and I are in the same building of 20, which is super transformative for our business and career. And, you know, because, you know, Nick started his podcasts before me monocrop and then I started mine. You know, being in that space, you have a lot of people, Nick, I'm sure it's the same that hey, can I commend to you for your day? Nick, let me see your operation and just fees, you know, realistically, and feasibly, you just can't have people just come mentor, you still running your business, you know, there's a lot to the day to day, as we all know, and you're still building the enterprise, if you will. And, and so Nick and I, you know, one of the missing pieces when you're running an event is you have to, it's the event planning, right? It's the coordination is the hotel, it's the food, I mean, there's so much back end, and you need partners, because you can't just do all this yourself. And so Nick and I, of course, aligned in so many ways, business given back legacy, and just made a lot of sense to partner on it. And of course, Morgan was a great fit, because, you know, her skill set and her team her back end, just making this happen from from marketing to the events. And, you know, and here we are, you know, running last few years, it's been really successful, and a lot of fun.
Nick Schiffer 3:20
Yeah, I'll add to that. I mean, you know, podcast is coming up on seven years for us, which is insane to think. But the whole premise behind starting that podcast was exactly what Brad said, is people are reaching out through message or, or primarily, you know, social media, like, hey, you know, I'd love to just be a fly on the wall, you know, or mentor you or just understand how you do something. And, you know, we we had thrown an event, like completely sporadically, we announced John, who used to be on the podcast, and I were, we're talking like, hey, why don't we just post something and see if people want to meet up, it was like a, quote unquote, meet up, right. And 40 people showed up to this restaurant. First off, the restaurant was pissed, because because they didn't have the space for it. We didn't think anyone was gonna, like we were like, oh, maybe a handful people. Secondly, we ended up paying the entire tab. But we you know, at that point, that's when the whole podcast kind of came came to light, we're like this, we need to be able to record a conversation and give it to everyone. So they can be the quote unquote, fly on the wall. And that's been great. And in the podcast has been a great forum for, you know, so many different types of conversations very technical to very holistic to, you know, personal to therapeutic, like there's a lot of things that we cover on the podcast, and it's, you know, truthfully, it's something that is just kind of a, a, an opportunity to share what it's like to be in this industry in different ways. But fast forward, Brad and I We talk all the time and like Brad said, we're very aligned with what our goals are what our what our how our Our business is structured, we bounce ideas off one another, like, how did we do this? How do you do that? And, you know, ultimately, it got to a point where it's like, man, it would be really great if we could share what we're developing. And, you know, there's a lot of media's to be able to do that. And you know, you would see some of that on my, my personal Instagram, you'd see some of that in the one on one consulting calls I was doing. But everyone kept saying, like, it would be awesome to just have something bigger. And, you know, there was always this idea of doing an event, but exactly what Brad said, like, I can't, I don't have the capacity to put together an event. And absolutely, kudos to Morgan and her team. I mean, the watching them pull it together, and they're, you know, they're asking for my best restaurant, I'm like, thumbs up, like, and then I get there and like, what's his restaurant. But the point is, like, they they're so they're so dialed with the event side of it, where it's exactly it, that they were the missing piece. And, you know, Nashville was a huge test to that. And I think that, you know, we went into it optimistically thinking that, hey, this, this could and should be a really great thing for the industry. And it was we were on, I think it was at the end of day one, we realized we need to announce another date, another date. And we've done what, I don't know how many we've done at this point, five.
Brad Leavitt 6:34
And to Nick's point, what's interesting is like, over the years, Nick and I, we both have been mentored we spend a lot of money in coaching, we've part of the build of 20, not every building is to be part of the build of 20. And so you just have, you know, this information. And, you know, Nick spends a lot of time networking as to why and so there was just a need there that when we started our businesses, Nick and I align in this aspect, and I'm sure you to mark that. Like no one teaches you how to run a business, right, and especially construction is so complicated. And Mark, you've said this where, you know, a good business owner, that's bad a construction will be successful. But a good contract is bad a business won't, won't succeed. And so that's the core, this is really an end, there's so many opportunities, you know, fortunately for Nick and I, we made relationships outside of just the builders, you know, when you look at the vendors and suppliers, and there's a whole nother avenue of opportunity for builders, that we're trying to essentially open the, you know, the doors for that, you know,
Mark D. Williams<br> 7:26
I say that saying almost as often, as you say Chase experienced. So I'm glad I have something you can tease me about now. You know, one thing well, sorry to interrupt, Nick, you were gonna say something about,
Nick Schiffer 7:40
you know, the one, I think one of the most important parts of this and just educating in general is that we oftentimes are educated by people that have done it and have successfully completed it, you know, the old guy that dun dun it made billions of dollars and, you know, now wants to share how he did it, where I have found the most value that I've gotten are from the guys that are a year or two years ahead of me. And I've realized that so when when I think about being able to share what I'm learning, I'm teaching as, as I'm learning. So I'm learning something, I'm developing something, I'm seeing it work, I'm seeing it not work. And then I'm turning around and to the guy that's chasing me and so on and so forth. It's like, hey, go left, I went, I went right and it was a shit show. So go left. And I think I think that that's the, the coattail effect, and like the rising tide raises all ships, you know, mentality. And that's how we, you know, we really give back to the industry as a whole.
Mark D. Williams<br> 8:39
I learned I heard something just recently from someone that had mentioned this about learn, earn and return and just the fruit three phases of a business life and I think that's just what you were speaking to. That really resonates. What's one of my questions, I guess we'll talk about it right now is what are so you You've obviously had these amazing connections between the two of you and with Morgan Molitor with constructing to style At what point did you realize that this was galvanized is going to take off because at what point did Morgan sort of enter your realm? Because it seems like she was maybe the missing piece especially organizationally to really kind of you know set the set the match to this fire? Because you guys it sounds like you guys been kind of brewing this idea how to develop it walk me through the maturation of once you've met Morgan was at biz calm, and if so then how did it quickly then escalate to the next level?
Brad Leavitt 9:25
Yeah, and I'll take this one, Nick, but I I had Morgan ash on my podcast and she was talking about these events. And before that, I had been a bit calm. So I actually went to biz calm. I was a guest speaker, she had me come speak as one of the keynote speakers there and then a breakout panel. And I was so impressed by the event, right? It just I've been a lot of events is very well put together is very professional. They had the right clientele there, right. And it was just super well done from just an event, you know, organization and so when that was the Last piece, right? And so immediately I called Nick and Nick it within two seconds like I'm in like, we had planned it. And then really, when we knew is going to take off, Nick would probably agree we were in Sun Valley, Idaho, at our builder 20. And we met early before the our build of 20 started. So we plan to go a little bit early and essentially plan that 10. Right. And so as we're kind of going through the content, and what we're going to speak about Nick and I are both like, you know, these are the topics that we think are most important for the builders at all. 10. And we know that this is going to hit and I think there was Nick would agree that there's a lot of camaraderie and just, you know, just when we're going to just the topics and content that we both had, we knew that that was it was going to be very beneficial for those again, yeah,
Nick Schiffer 10:38
it was funny, I remember sitting, we were sitting in the lobby at breakfast, and we're in we were making this list of things that we needed to talk about. And my thought going into that was that we were going to sit down, outline topics, add discussion points, add, like all of these notes. And we put together the list and we kind of looked at each other, like, you know what we're, you know what you're talking about, right? And it's like, yes, like we don't, let's just go up there and do it. Because it's not something that we need to learn in dispersive. That moment, it's these are the things that we know are a hot topic, and that we've spent a lot of time learning. So let's just talk about it raw, and, you know, fast forward to Nashville, and we saw that, you know, how well that was received, you're like, Okay, this is like, we have something and let's just continue to refine it, and make sure that we keep it in that, you know, in the form that we have.
Mark D. Williams<br> 11:29
One of the things that I appreciate it. So that was, as I've mentioned previously, on other podcasts even on my own, you know, when it was brought to my attention, actually, my wife brought to my attention. And she said, You really should go do this, I think you'd really find a lot of value in it. And it wasn't inexpensive. It was $10,000 for three days. And that was a pretty major investment for me at the time was like, you know, I've been doing this for 18 years, you know, I'm always open to new ideas. But I'm like, that's, you know, that's a lot more than most trade shows or other things that I've done. And I called Morgan, and I didn't know her, but she was in my state didn't know you guys at all. And so I called Morgan I said, Hey, Morgan, this is Mark Williams, you know, I build in your state, and she knew who I was. And kudos for her. She knows everybody. And so I just said, you know, what do you think about this investment, I want to go, but I'm not somebody that wants to just sit and listen, I don't do lectures, like, I need to be involved. You guys are gonna laugh, like I asked a lot of questions. And I want to be I want to be involved. Not a passive learner. I'm a very active learner. And she said, You will make your money back in the first hour. And that was it. She credited her for selling hard because nothing sells a salesman better than being sold. And I was like, amen. So I signed up, you know, half hour later. And she was right. You know, the first our you guys talked about contracts, the difference between a design retainer and crediting it back to the eventual contract versus keeping it and Nick, I think you're the one speaking about it, you're like, why are you doing the work for free and a light bulb went off in my head? I'm like, What am I doing? And, and so for that one thing, that's it that paid for the entire contractor coalition, plus that 87 pages of notes that I'm still acting on two years later.
Nick Schiffer 13:05
It's funny, it's funny, because the you know, the one thing that people battle is the price of it. And I you know, like Brad, I've actually went to a lot of different seminars and events, you know, some of them more than $10,000 in for a one day event. And every time I've left, you know, the first thing my wife says is, was it worth it? How was it? And you know, it kind of what you just said is like, it wasn't, it was a light bulb that went off, it wasn't that I went there, and I learned the secret. It wasn't this, like something I was missing completely, it was just being surrounded by people that were like minded and had advice that was, you know, tried and true. And, you know, and for me, like all of the events that I've attended, that's what it's about, it's about being immersed into a group of people that are willing to invest, you know, into themselves at a at a high price point. And it becomes this really, really powerful room of, you know, the pages and pages of notes that you've put together. And it will be that one little thing that you maybe you've thought about in your business, or maybe that you've considered doing but until you hear someone else, say it, or say that it's worth, it's hard for you to act alone on. And that really is what kind of stemmed the entire, you know, cost structure around the the the event also we wanted it to, I mean, not to mention, we wanted it to be in a really great spot. We want it to be in a great city, you know, a little workstation, though most of it is work. There's still you know, we're still mingling outside of the, you know, the classroom per se.
Brad Leavitt 14:46
And one thing that's funny mark to that point is I remember this conversation because we hadn't met yet. And I remember Morgan talking to Nick and I and she's like, you know, she knew the content was gonna be good because she had been working with itinerary, but it said She she made a comment to the effect of you guys better deliver. There's this builder coming from Minnesota and he wins all these awards like he's super well known. And Nick and I were just say, Don't you
Nick Schiffer 15:10
were the guy to impress man. Yeah,
Mark D. Williams<br> 15:12
that's funny because what I built compared to what you build is not, you know, you know, shacks compared to, you know, a beautiful mega at home. So we build nice stuff, but you guys are on another level. But what's funny about that is she clearly was like, don't make me a liar, because I sold him hard. So you guys better back it up, you better have four aces in your hand. Well,
Brad Leavitt 15:30
and the thing is Mark, I mean, to Nick's point, I mean, all of us for continued education, there's an investment, right, you're gonna pay for college, you're gonna pay, whatever you feel is going to advance your career. And we're I agree with Nick, as we both been taught by people that have been successful in the industry. And now they're essentially consulting coaching, it's very different being in peers, this is part of the build a 20 aspect is that when you're working with peers that are living through it everyday, currently, right now, it is different, the markets change, you know, economies change, it's a lot different now for us in business and pre COVID, than it was pre recession, you know, in 2008. And so, these are moving targets industry is changing, and that's why, you know, there's a lot of value and even more so outside of the content, you're there with 3040 builders in the room, and the relationships built the friendships, that camaraderie, I mean, essentially, you have these many little groups of, you know, networks that are being built at each of these sessions. So
Mark D. Williams<br> 16:17
well, and one of the big takeaways for me is, obviously, there's a tremendous amount of material that's covered. And frankly, it's like drinking from a firehose, I mean, you can not, the amount of information that comes at you is insane. I actually, I, this will be my third time going, I wish I was at Huntington Beach, and you guys need to install a restraining order to keep me away from the fourth, I'm guessing. But, you know, this one happens to be in Minneapolis, Minnesota coming up here in May. And, you know, I'm lucky enough to obviously, we'll be hosting a live event on one of the Thursday nights before the kickoff. And it'll be you know, Tyler with modern craftsman and you Nick as well as Brad and Morgan, you know, on a big, you know, stage and just talking about everything and bringing you here locally, but it's amazing how fast the journey changes. And what I think you have really highlighted more than anything else is I've never been a private person I've been I'm always pretty open who I am, how I am, at all phases of wherever I am. And so it's not hard to remember what you say or do because you just the same and it but what I'm going with this is that so many builders, especially the generation above us have felt like they've been more secretive and like they have a secret sauce, a secret recipe, they're not willing to share, and I get the builder 20 You have the nondisclosure is what really blew off my doors was you're going to share everything. You're like everybody that's here, it really taught me that you guys lived it. The collaboration over competition. Morgan says it all the time and also to I and I have found it so liberating. Someone has a question about contract. Hey, Nick, you held up your This cost me $15,000 to develop here, take it now you don't have to make sure it works in your state. It's really just a guiding principle. You need an employee handbook. I spent one year figuring this out. Here you go. You guys were so free at sharing information that for me, in particular, I'm like, these are my people. This is my tribe. I was really blown away at that. Can you talk a little bit about how you came to that yourself? Because Would you agree with that, that the generation above us was much more insular and built in silos, as you say, Nick?
Nick Schiffer 18:11
Yeah. And to speak specifically to So years ago, I have a specific, you know, example of this moreso on like the actual carpentry work. And someone had reached out to me, I was installing shingles on the side of my house. And he had reached out to me about a better way to install the bat and on the side of the house, so I wouldn't damage the shingle. As I moved the bat and up the wall. And he walks me through it like oh my god, that's genius. Thank you so much. So I'm doing it inside my house, I decided to do a video on it. And I posted it on like, at the time Snapchat, and the guy lost his mind. And he's like, dude, like, that's, that's a secret you like don't share it. Like, you can't share that. And at the time, I'm like, oh my god, like it wasn't. I didn't think I didn't even think about it. I was just like, This is how I operate. I just like, I learned I share I learned I share I learned how to share. And I ended up you know, coming to the realization that Listen, I'm not the I'm not the one that like he's not the one that does, like came up with this idea. And nor am I the first one to share. And I forget who said it to me, but it was like, Dude, this old house has been doing this for years. Like you just you're doing it on a different platform. You're doing it on social media, and this old house has been sharing how to do this stuff on TV for 40 years. Like it's no different. And so it was that. And the other side of it was when I if I reached out to you Mark and I said Hey Mark, do you know how to you know, put together a subcontract agreement? And you said no, or Yes, I do. But I'm not sharing with you. No problem. I would move on. But I would never ask you another question. I would never ask you for anything else. Where I looked at it is like if I know something what like yeah, let me share it with you, because I want to be the guy that is has the information that people come to, because not only am I giving back to the industry, but I also know that now I'm building equity and trust with someone where it's like, you know, over time, you know, some of the guys that have been to the coalition have referred me to projects where it's like, Hey, I know a great guy up in Boston, because I've provided value to them. And it's just this exchange of value where I think that when you when you are, so you keep everything close to the chest, it's, it's fine, and it will work for you. But it's, but it's very lack of better terms, it's so it's just very selfish, where, you know, I look at what my legacy will be, and what I want to be, you know, when I leave this world, like, I want to be known for building cool ass homes, but I also want to, you know, be known for helping the industry, you know, in some way, and promoting, you know, promoting this industry as a as a viable and, you know, rewarding career.
Mark D. Williams<br> 21:04
I, you know, one thing that's interesting about that is because I agree with everything you said, I also think intent matters a lot. And I don't know how to speak to this in terms of like words, but like feeling like if somebody asks you for help, like genuine help. I don't know too many people that say no to that. Or you think so I don't disagree with that. I think if people ask for help with a motive, or an agenda, or like a very, like, it's kind of a subtle, sneaky way, I think it comes out. But like if someone calls you and says, I need your help, I'm in a tough spot. I have a hard time believing people say no. Do you think people actually asked for help with malicious intent?
Nick Schiffer 21:45
Well, I think people definitely say no, with malicious intent. I think that that's probably a smaller group of people. But I think that your like your view on it is, it's optimistic. It just, you know, you know, we all know, like, Mark, you're an optimistic guy, like, I tend to be on the same side of it. And I would think that everyone wants to help, but the reality is, is, you know, it's, it's easier to say no, or I don't know, it's just way easier. And if you think about the majority of of the population in general, just like people live, to be comfortable and live an easy life where it's good.
Mark D. Williams<br> 22:24
I well, I guess, like, where I'm going with this is that if I think it's actually harder to ask for help, than it is to give help. Now, granted, you created a contract or coalition, you created the podcast to help fill a need, because so many people were asking, but in the general fit span of life, and maybe I'll just speak as a man who is also married, and you guys all are to, like men in particular, we were pretty bad at asking for help, because we think we can do it. I think honestly, one thing that podcasts and just in general, as you get older, you realize you're actually not great at everything, you're not that good at anything. So you might as well ask for help a lot. And the sooner you can come to the place that you can have some humility and just simply ask for help and say, I don't know, it also encourages the other person to do the same. And I think there's a sense of vulnerability. And I think that's one thing, even in podcasting that I've learned pretty quickly on that, the more often in any, frankly, any interpersonal communication, when you offer up things about yourself, that may be seen as a weakness, or failing that you're gonna it's going to make the other person feel safer to also share their insecurities or whatever they're dealing with. You're spot
Nick Schiffer 23:26
on, and sorry, bribe them hijacking here. It's, you know, I did, I posted about this a couple months ago, and I was talking about a situation in high school. And it was, you know, I remember the teacher saying, Does anyone not understand the problem? No one raises their hand. And then it's like, but I don't understand it, and I don't, but I don't want to be the kid that raises their hand. And then also you raise your hand, it's like, I actually don't understand it. Teacher turns around was like, Oh, okay. Does anyone else not understand it? And then for other hands go up? And it's like, yeah, you just need that one person to be vulnerable, vulnerable? Because, yes, like, I can only speak to being a man, you know, be like that. And I'm the same way, it's very difficult to ask for help. And it's also very difficult to ask for help in in different ways, where typically, at least for me, like I have one outlet that I know, I can ask for help. And it's, it's usually not formatted in a way that looks like I'm asking you for help. It's just like dancing around a question like, Hey, you mind explaining what you mean there. But it's just that's the reality of it. And the moment and you're absolutely right, the moment you can you open that vulnerability up and you open up that humility, it allows, you know, kind of that entire room to drop their shoulders and engage with it.
Mark D. Williams<br> 24:47
Brad, what how have you found, you know, in terms of sharing information and people reaching out to you, is your experience quite similar?
Brad Leavitt 24:55
I think it's similar in the sense that when I started and I've been pretty open about this when I started my career here In Scottsdale, I mean, there is a good old boys club, there's a lot of builders that have been here a long time and very established in the Phoenix area. And I think that's common for many years in the US. And it was a struggle, even, you know, even a former employer, I had, you know, trying to network and understand some different, you know, aspects of running an organization once it's your own very closed door, you know, not very collaborative. And I think that's pretty common. And, you know, that's changed. And this is that collaboration over competition was talking about, but, you know, at the core of it, you know, I think there's a lot of confidence that, you know, us three, specifically, and many others in our network have a mentality of abundance, not scarcity. And I think that's what it comes down to, we're all pretty confident people in our brand and our product and what we do our communication styles. And so with that, you know, as you share, I found that, hey, generosity always precedes prosperity. You know, that's one of my big things, too, that as you share information and share content and build that network, like it always pays itself back, maybe not immediately, but a will. But as Nick mentioned, I receive referrals from other builders and other contacts that, you know, are applicable to me in my area. And the reason that these builders shared is because they know, you know, what kind of people what kind of operation we have. And so I've just been big that those proceeds always come, you know, you just have to lay the groundwork.
Mark D. Williams<br> 26:17
What have you. So we've kind of obviously nailed that one. Pretty good. I think in terms of like the contractor coalition, from, you know, you guys have had five now coming up on your six, what have you, what are some of your takeaways? What have you learned both about yourself and your own practices? Like Brad, you just mentioned, you have 27 employees at Nashville? You had 19? Yeah. And so I mean, you're growing your business, while you're helping other people grow their business? I have to imagine like any educator, as you interact with the builders in the room, regardless of their experience, or or, you know, their depth of knowledge you're learning as you're teaching. I mean, don't they always say that, you know, people that are teaching really have a huge grasp of it, but you're always learning what are some of the takeaways that you've learned from people that have attended, and maybe just speak to your experience on that point,
Brad Leavitt 27:06
what a young mentor had in high school, I remember he said, If you want to be successful, you hang around successful people, right? Like you are, who you hang out with, if you have bad friends, you're going to gravitate to things that they do. We all know that being adolescents and teenagers, but it's no different in business. When you're in there, and there is a truth, you know, I will touch on this point that you made mark is that when you are instructing that content, whenever anyone who's taught something or spoke, you're going to prepare, right? So by preparing, you're going to do some in depth study and research and, and so you're kind of building up to this understanding of the topic, whatever it may be, then when you teach it, but you become, I don't wanna say an expert, but it becomes more ingrained, right. So now you can take those principles and really have them top of mind so that you're applying them firsthand. But going back to the networking, when I'm there, and I'm around every building, it doesn't matter if they've been in business six months, like some attendees have been at the conference or, you know, 20 years like you mark. The thing is, and this is same thing for the podcast, every time I interview guests on the podcast, they'll say something, one or two or three things, and I'm like, That's brilliant, you know, it's a great idea that stuff that I can apply. And so when you're around successful people, when you're around entrepreneurs, it's these little nuggets, you get in conversations at dinner, you know, questions when marks in the front row raising his hand, you know, as a bunch of questions, these come up, and, and so that's the value I look for, you know, Nick and I did attend this, it's just you leave with an energy. I know, when we left Austin, you know, there was this huge energy just based on the feedback and some real applicable things that all of us applied. And even before the conference started, we were with Matt shoberg. And we toured some of his, his homes, that's part of it, you know, part of these conferences now. So we're doing home tours. There were some things that happened in that communication with Matt down in Austin, that now we've applied internally at at TI. So I think there's just always good things that come, you know, in those environments.
Nick Schiffer 28:56
Yeah, I would second that. I think it's, you know, to summarize, being around like minded, good people just continues to, you know, hold hold yourself accountable for what you're out there trying to achieve.
Mark D. Williams<br> 29:12
Have you found so now, of the, let's say, let's say you have 30 times? I mean, so you've had several 100 people come through the classes, and the idea how many like, it's amazing how many people come a second time it has that surprised you? Like I know, obviously, Nathan Marsala has gone to two or three. I've gone to two coming up on three, you know, Butel, these have been on three. You know, I believe Meg billings was just last week's episode for me, has been to two. She said her husband would leave her if she went to three this year because she's got too many commitments. But it hasn't surprised you that people keep coming back for more?
Brad Leavitt 29:43
I don't think so. I'm sure Nick can say the same. I mean, we've had multiple I mean, many, many that have come to multiple and the reason being is it, just like Nick and I continue to attend different conferences, and I'm sure you'll test it as Mark is that there's so much information that you're going to take away from I have six, seven things that go impacted. Well, now, you get into the, I don't wanna say mundane, you get into the reality of going back and the day to day of your business, and it's hard to implement everything. So when you come back, you kind of get that refresher course to say, I missed this, like, why didn't I do this? Why did I forget about that? And now it's top of mind, I'm gonna go focus on that. And so I think there's always a continual, just like all of us that are, you know, work out, it's continue.
Mark D. Williams<br> 30:21
I think I'll go ahead. And two
Nick Schiffer 30:24
things. I think that, you know, number one, it's exactly that like, the first time you go there, you're trying to, you know, capture everything. And then the second time, you're able to, you're able to filter through some of the things in focus and hyper focus on something we use the first time, it's just overwhelming. It's I don't know what to focus on. The other side of it is, you know, there's an event that I went to two years ago that I was talking to one of the instructors, and he was he was asking me if I was going to come back, and I was like, I really want to, and after I was like, I'm not even sure why, you know, it really was just to be around Ben environment. That was it. Because it wasn't something I went to and it wasn't a classroom, it by any means. There was a little you know, there was a little seminar and talking about leadership and things like that, but it wasn't this hyper focused, you know, task oriented thing, it was just being around those those types of people. And for me, that that would be the worth the price paid to go to to an event like that. I
Mark D. Williams<br> 31:27
mean, I 100% agree with that. I came back and I was on cloud 77, forget cloud nine, I had so much, I had so much energy. And for me, like Mark has energy, oh man, Red Bull in lines of coke to quote Tyler grace. And but you know, I had so much energy and so much inspiration to your point. It's hard to know how much of it was the information that was shared, versus the collaboration and like spirited people and just being inspired by each other. As you know, human beings, builders, passionate, you have similar interests, and then you obviously gravitate to certain certain people even within it, right? I mean, even today, it's got to be kind of cool. As you know, the teachers are the senseis of the group, you know, you know, I probably talked to Nathan Marsala, probably, you know, two or three times a month, at least, he just sent me a picture of his watch and just said, he closes his first sponsorship deal. And I was like, attaboy. It was like an informal builder, 20 group that you have these little micro networking groups that start spinning off and tell me a little bit like, from your guys's point of view, seeing what some of us have done? Even under kind of your guidance, I texted Brad the other day, you know, I was giving them crap. I said, You didn't give us a fish. You taught us how to fish. So it's your own fault. You know, if we have a boat full of fish, what is it like watching people who have attended your seminar is to actually put it into action and see real results. I
Nick Schiffer 32:41
think it's super cool. Like, you know, especially through the lens of social media, because it's like, I mean, you like we'll talk about you, you started a podcast, you started brand deals, you start like you started hyper focusing on what your your true north star is in the business. You know, we talk offline too. And, you know, there's real alignment in what your goals are. And I think that when I talk to some of the attendees, and I see it unfold on on social media, that's really cool. And, you know, in strictly because I knew that, at some point, something something was said to, to, to encourage them to make that decision, or take or go after that opportunity. Rob in Ohio working with Rockwell, like, it's super cool to just see that unfold and see, you know, great people be supported by great brands, and, you know, and vendors in, and that's the whole other side of it, where it's like, we've built some really amazing partnerships with vendors that, you know, truthfully, they want high quality partners in the field builders, and contractors. And that's not an easy thing to just filter through the the 1000s and 1000s of builders out there. And here, you know, we can give back to the vendors that are supportive, supporting us by bringing, you know, really high level people to a table and saying, hey, here are the people that you want to be partnering with?
Brad Leavitt 34:09
Well, and I'll take that, I mean, just to build on what Nick said. So we have at IBS, we have a couple events, right? That I'm speaking at and partnering with some vendors. All of the other partners are from the contractor coalition Summit, they're all attendees that are speaking are in this event, the day after the builder show we're doing an event here in Phoenix, and every builder coming has attended the summit. So looking at just that exposure they've had and what they've built it's just been incredible see the success they've had and you know, from social media deals and vendor relationships and and even more so it's you know, there's the vendor relationship is, is very valuable in a lot of reasons, not just from a you know, sponsorship level, but also from a product right all of us need product we need, you know, context and issue and to run our business and that's been, you know, very important.
Mark D. Williams<br> 35:00
Looking at what the future holds? Where do you guys see the future of the contractor coalition? And what are some things that you're inspired by?
Nick Schiffer 35:11
I think that the, you know, big picture, I think it's just going to be more and more refined. You good?
Unknown Speaker 35:21
Yeah.
Nick Schiffer 35:25
Mark leven.
Brad Leavitt 35:28
Go ahead. I can hear Nick, go ahead.
Nick Schiffer 35:32
Sorry. Um, yeah, I think that big picture, it's, it's just going to be more and more refined. I think that the event, you know, there's, there's so much strength to it already, with, you know, attendees and vendors, that now it's a matter of how do we continue to refine our message? How do we continue to provide more value about value to everyone attending? And I think, you know, Brad, you know, you and I talk about it's like, how do we, how do we package more information in a way that we can get more out, but not not completely overwhelm them? The other the other side of it is, you know, how do we how do we have some sort of, quote, unquote, continuing education beyond that, where it's, you know, are we doing, you know, monthly calls, or quarterly calls or building, you know, a group outside of, you know, what that event is, I think that, you know, looking at the future, you know, that's where there's a lot of opportunity where, you know, that can be our pinnacle event, but there's so much more underneath that, where it's like, hey, yeah, we talked about contracts for an hour, you know, in Minneapolis, but if you want, here's a, here's a course, that will walk you through step by step on how to set up our contract and the things that you should really pay attention to. So now that we were we're just continuing to kind of extrude more information out of everything that comes out in that short amount of time. And
Brad Leavitt 36:55
one thing that we'll be doing and Nick and I know, over the sessions, you know, the contents always a little bit different, we add different information, you know, as it's as it has evolved, I know specifically with 18, our growth and KPIs and leadership committees and different things we've implemented, since I had some of my builder 20 Come out, including Nick, you know, automotive organization, there's some good things happening, even with build a trend like that we're implementing with builder trends, you know, we move software, we've taken full buildertrend capability and integrated in our organization. So there's some things I've really X, you know, expedited our, you know, helped us expedite in our growth, and that they've helped us be more efficient. And, you know, these are things that we want to share just successes that we've had, and mistakes, so that no one makes the same mistake we have. So
Mark D. Williams<br> 37:43
do you think, you know, it's kind of what you're talking about? Nick? Do you think you guys will develop even like, almost like an online curriculum where people either both alumni or people that even can't make it, you could have like standoff one off courses, almost like an education university? Or is that like just a whole nother level of organization? Because, in case people didn't know, you guys already are running like 20 other businesses? You know, there's only so much time you have in the day, you know, how far do you take this education piece?
Nick Schiffer 38:06
Truthfully? The answer is yes, that is something that we are working on. And you know, the benefit to that is, you know, it takes a lot of setup time and a lot of organization to put it together. But then it's there, right, and it's evergreen, and someone can pick and choose when they want to, to go through that course and read through that material. And as it evolves, or, or as we update our process, we can always go in there and update or add to that. So yeah, I mean, short answer is yes, that is something that we definitely want. Because, you know, similar to, you know, having a live event or having a meet up at a at a bar and having all these great conversations, it kind of lives in the eyes there. You know, sure. You go back and have a note notebook. And, you know, and have all these great things, but how to have, how do you? How do we share more of that with more people. And, you know, the live event, there's obviously, you're paying a higher ticket price for the immersive experience. And of course, you know, having being part of that in a live setting, but there's still value that we can rip out of that and share to a greater audience.
Mark D. Williams<br> 39:19
I mean, that's really valuable. I can see how long term I mean, not only is that an amazing marketing, display and educational display, but for long term, even residual income, right? I mean, if you having a university where people could for $100, learn how to do something, you know, obviously, get 10,000 people to do that. That's a lot of money. The speaking a little bit of the the money side of things. Let's talk a little bit about, you know, brand partnerships, and some of the things that, you know, even the coalition has sort of explored, I've done some smaller stuff here, and we're about to launch it in a quarter probably in q2. I'll tell you more about it when I have it fully developed, but it's basically like rather than a three day Summit, it's like a three hour meeting. that you really encourage people just to get together and really do some of the fundamental things that you guys have kind of showed us even in your longer courses. But there's a huge appetite that sponsors want to be a part of this, I think they get very quickly, just how important it is not only to support it, but also who wouldn't want to be a part of it. Tell us a little bit about, you know, people that on the outside that say, Hey, how do we support the contractor coalition? How do we sponsor this? What kind of appetite is there for that out there right now?
Brad Leavitt 40:29
Well, what's interesting is you look at rockwool, Emser, Anderson, buildertrend. I mean, just to name a few that have participated, they do a lot of events, right, they sponsor a lot, they're active in the community, they're active in the in the field and industry, they get more out of this, because they know that people, they are really committed to the brand and to the company, and reputation and everything to building and so it's just amazing to see, you know, their involvement and the feedback. I mean, you can go look at some of the reviews. I mean, we talked to them all the time, and they're like, we're in for the next two we're in for next for like, you know, they want to be part of this, because they see the value just on, you know, the the caliber of people that are attending.
Nick Schiffer 41:06
I think that brands in general have, you know, we've been seeing this for the last, you know, almost 10 years, that they've been shifting their marketing towards more of the influencer side influencer just kind of encapsulating everything we're talking about, right. And that, you know, and it started with a lot of some of the big tool companies were some of the first to do it, where, you know, there was a good two years, where this particular tool company was literally sending out tools to everyone, like, I would have tools just show up to my doorstep, not asking for them for no reason. And you would watch social media change, and all sudden, everyone has this tool, everyone's talking about it. And they felt, you know, they felt as though they were required to talk about how great it was because they were getting it for free. And that has obviously evolved over time. And, you know, my point is, is that they see the value in marketing in a different way. You know, it's not, it's not so it's not so high level, it's very direct, you know, you know, person to person, you know, business to consumer. And when you're doing it in a, you know, a nice group of 30 highly qualified, you know, Builders and Contractors, you're, you're talking to someone that is there, because they want to be there because they invest, and they want to better their business. And and you know that that relationship, if that vendor is going to provide value than that that builder is going to provide value back because they're of that caliber.
Mark D. Williams<br> 42:38
Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. It's interesting. This is more of a personality thing. I am guessing how each one of you are going to respond, but I'm not going to gauge it. So I will just say it like this. If someone was to send me a bunch of tools to my doorstep, and I am not the handiest guy, I've known Nick Schiffer. I will, but let's put it back a step. If I'm gonna go buy something I my own personality set is such that I am not somebody that's going to do exhaustive research. But what I will do is I will go to an influencer like Nick Schiffer, or, you know, like, Brad or whoever I'm following. And I'll say what do they do? Or if I know them personally, right, I'll call another term or I'll call another painter. You know, what did you paint brushes? Do you like the best I am? That's just my personality set. Do you have versus me doing all the research myself? Do you have a sense is that in the industry of building? How many people do you think ask somebody for a recommendation and then go with whatever that recommendation is? Because they I'm basing my decision based on who I trust, it's a value statement and who you are as a person. And I'll live with the consequences after because I've already made my decision on who you are, versus going and figuring out yourself, do you think it's 5050? And how do you how would each one of you answer that question for yourself? It's
Nick Schiffer 43:47
way higher. It's way higher, way higher than that, I think that the majority of purchases are being made by being influenced to make that decision. Like there's, it's, yeah, I think very few people are doing exhaustive research. They're, they're looking for one person that they can trust to say, do it, and then they're moving forward with that decision. It just, it's just the world we live in. I was talking about this earlier about gym shorts out of everything, because you know, I get I can't tell you how many Instagram ads I get for gym shorts. And it's like, app finally after 15 times of seeing the same ad. I was like fine, I'll order them and I'm
Mark D. Williams<br> 44:28
sure they were black as long as they're black you'll wear them I do have red bonds. He's You're a liar. They're they're dark red.
Nick Schiffer 44:38
But it's in ultimately I was influenced by it because I've like built trust with with that brand. Now it wasn't someone influencing it was it was that company putting the touch points in the right spot that eventually I bought and but for for I can speak I actually didn't know this about a particular brand I work with. They they had told Old, some a colleague of mine, that every time that we talk about their product they are. So they are so particular in the way I talk about it, and it doesn't like they don't give me a script or anything, but when when I use it, I have to be installing it correctly. So we talk a lot about the installation of it. But every single time we post about it, they get no shortage of 100 phone calls asking for the same product. Because for the same thing, and and I've seen the flip side of it, too, unfortunately, where, you know, I'm not intentionally I wasn't intentionally bad mouthing your product, but I was talking about a product failure. And I had the vendor, I bought the product from call me. And I rate because 200 orders were cancelled that day. Oh, and, and, you know, I smooth it over, but I was like, at the moment, I was like, wow, that's, that's a lot of influence. Like I just was talking about the fact that there was a piece of stone that cracked under heat. And all of a sudden, like, they were like, 200 Architects called, and we're like, we're canceling our order, we're gonna switch the material. Yeah, so my point is, is like, it's, it's way higher. And I think that, you know, as decision made, like, if you can simplify decision making, that's what everyone wants. Time. Tyvek is a great example. I know, I'm rambling. But, you know, it used to be just Tyvek, everyone would use Tyvek, tie bar or tar paper. And that was it. Now you have all of these WR B's in everyone's talking about which one that they want, and that and this one's better. And that one's better. And this one's better. The reality is like, none of them are really better. It's how they get installed. And you're in, I get, you know, I and you and Brad, like we all get influenced to use a particular brand that we become we we trust. And we trust that it works, because it works for us, or, or someone told us it works. And then we try it. It does work. And that's it. It makes
Mark D. Williams<br> 47:00
sense. I mean, obviously, I know you, you guys are both sport enthusiasts, but like, obviously, the movie air right Michael Jordan, I mean, if Nike, famously, you know, Hey, Michael, please wear these Nikes. And you know, you've got a multibillion dollar business, because I mean, I
Nick Schiffer 47:13
think that was one of the most successful influencer deals, ever.
Mark D. Williams<br> 47:18
I mean, pretty soon modern craftsman curious builder and AF t will be right after Nike, but I'm sure we have a ways to go.
Brad Leavitt 47:26
Yeah, but till that point, I mean, even as you take it farther, I mean, we're building our house, you know, we're going to be breaking ground in April on our personal home. And the reality is, how many of us have clients, right? And peers? Hey, would you use this product in your home? You know, is this something you really stand behind? And, you know, when you put that product in your personal house to from an influencer standpoint, or just from the reach we have, you know, there's some, you know, an endorsement, if you will, and, and the brands see the value there, too. And they see the brand, you know, the brand, see who's putting in the product when they see someone like Nick or Matt rising? Or you Mark, I mean, whoever it is, or May, who you had on recently on your podcast, they see these are people that believe in the product that are putting it in, and there's validity there. Because these are people that are doing it day to day, it's not just, it's a little bit different than the Nike deal. Well, actually, it's not because Jordan was one of the shoes in every game. So I can't, you know, but some of these brands will hire influencers, just to say, you know, because you're getting paid, whereas we're actually using it and living in every day. It is
Mark D. Williams<br> 48:20
it's I mean, I think most of your ad reads and most of the stuff that you're pitching your individually using, and not that I wouldn't be open to exploring the use of a new product. But for right now in the infancy of you know, the curious builder, Emily, a year and a half in I pretty much have kept it to basically sponsors that of course, I either believe in EUR USD myself, because speaking from a first person point of view, it's like you don't have to sell it, you just have to share your experience. So it doesn't, I think that's why it also becomes such an easy thing to sell and why people believe it because there's no put on, there's no real salesmanship, you're just saying, This is my experience. It's gone. Great. This is what I like to use End of story. And it kind of just accelerates after that.
Brad Leavitt 48:59
Well, Mark, you and I are big fans of Pella. They've performed in so many ways for both of us in different markets. And you you know you come to the summit, you ended up getting both of us to go to Iowa and film commercials for him. So
Mark D. Williams<br> 49:10
that was pretty funny. They I mean, for those that haven't seen it, you can check out pella.com and also the curious builder or YouTube channel which only has five followers, but that also has has it on there anyway but the long story short was it was funny about that Brad is your name came up recently and I may have a surprise for you at some point. But the pelo thing you know as you're being coached and I think Nick took spoke about this about you know, him saying something and then you know, someone getting upset with them. I learned what the definition of puffery is Nick, do you know what the definition of puffery is? Now, it's a legal term Brad, you were there because I kept going off script. And every time I went off script, like legal department be like No, you can't say that. No, you can't say that. No, because I like to sell right. So I would maybe add up a turns out if you say like, you know if you were to say Pella is the best company in Minnesota. Well unless you have the empirical data to prove it like you get into a lawsuit or I can say PAL is the best company in North America again problems but if I say Pella is the best company in the universe. Everyone understands that that is an outlandish statement puffery. So anyway, I need to come up with like a bumper sticker like the Papa of puffery or something because the poor legal department I was absolutely in Fitz when I was in Pella because I just kept coming up with these things that I couldn't say he
Brad Leavitt 50:24
did go off script quite a bit and get choked by the legal that was on on staff there.
Mark D. Williams<br> 50:28
Well, as we come skidding into a stop here to respect your times, obviously the next contractor coalition, we've just spent the last hour you know, talking about its value and what it is, for those that are listening, you guys can go to you know, contractor coalition.com current if you're here. Sorry. Why don't you go ahead and say it better, Nick,
Nick Schiffer 50:51
you're going off script mark.
Mark D. Williams<br> 50:53
I see. This is what happens. All right, contractor coalition summit.com. You can pick up your tickets, it's coming to Minneapolis, was it was it may may 15. To the 1950s to the 19. Interesting you guys are doing it over the weekend this year. What was kind of the impetus behind that was just his travel schedules. Well, we
Brad Leavitt 51:11
did that in Austin, because we found that you know, everyone's pretty busy Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday is pretty tough. Whereas you go over the weekend, Friday, you know, hit or miss, but then Saturday, Sunday, they're typically phones off so they can really pay attention. And, you know, that was kind of a request and make a little bit easier for people to attend. Okay,
Mark D. Williams<br> 51:27
that makes sense that some some feedback, I think, actually on the 16th. So we're doing as I mentioned previously, we're doing a live event where we're gonna have a, you know, a standalone event. So even if you're not going to the contractor coalition, and you're in Minneapolis, you can attend and, you know, listen to everything that you guys have to share and enjoy some networking. And I think actually during the day, we're going to tour one of my homes. I think it was a modern home I built last year, and so all the builders that are flying in, you're gonna get a tour of Marquis lambs Custom Homes finest, so excited to big time show you what you got. Yeah, big time. Brown would be like, well, this is the cabin next to my lazy river that I just did. Alright, well, we'll have all your guys's contact in the show notes. Any parting words of wisdom?
Nick Schiffer 52:12
Oh, I wasn't expecting that parting words. I mean, let's just stick with Collaborate over compete like that. All
Brad Leavitt 52:21
right. Fair enough. Yeah, power of networking, power of networking.
Mark D. Williams<br> 52:24
Thanks for coming on, boys. Appreciate your time. And we'll see you guys here in a couple of months. Brad, I'm a little disappointed that we aren't having the contractor coalition in January because everyone knows that I rad loves the heat. I hate the heat. He sorry. Brad hates the cold. And so I really tried to get him actually of all the winters. Brad. It has been the there's no snow on the ground. One cold week all year. It's ridiculous. It's like in his 40s I feel like I live in Nebraska.
Nick Schiffer 52:47
Brad. Brad came to Boston. I don't remember what month it was. But he had his number. It was December. So not the coldest month either. But he came because he had to make sure I could be part of the bill to 20 groups. And he packed 18 jackets. I was I was like what are you putting in my back seat? He goes all my jackets just in case I get caught. I'm like, bro, you could stay warm in Antarctica.
Mark D. Williams<br> 53:14
I saw a picture of him in a down fluffy jacket and he was with his daughters or something. And I thought he was in Phoenix and like you are a baby and then he's like, No, I'm actually up in like Sun Valley, Idaho ski. I'm like, Okay, fine. That's fair. But I honestly thought he was in Arizona.
Brad Leavitt 53:28
I just might my bloods too thin in Arizona. Sorry. So
Mark D. Williams<br> 53:32
so good. All right. Thanks, boys. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. All right. We'll see it
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