Episode 12 - Eric Robertson of NRD Landscape Design Build
Episode #12 | Eric Robertson | Putting Heart, Humor, and Skill Into Transforming Your Landscape
In this podcast episode, Eric shares his unique story of how he met, as well as his journey from studying Oceanography to starting his own landscape design business. He revisits the design foresight of a city that prioritizes tree planting for future generations to enjoy. Eric also emphasizes the value of knocking on doors, stuffing mailboxes, and showcasing his work at Home and Garden Shows to attract prospective clients and highlight the value that NRD can bring to enhance their home enjoyment. Beyond his immense skills and great communication, Eric's real value lies in his commitment to providing a quality experience and honest care for his clients, trade partners, and employees.
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About Eric Robertson
Eric Robertson is the Founder of NRD Landscape Design Build, a firm located in Minnetonka servicing the entire Twin Cities metro. Eric has been designing landscapes in the metro since 2001 and before that, he worked under Landscape Architects Macdonnell & Painter in Connecticut honing his craft.
Eric believes the landscape should be an extension of the home, providing a well-crafted space for outdoor living, and an area for friends and family to create memories throughout the various Minnesota seasons.
When Eric is not busy running NRD Landscape, he can be found spending time with his wife, and two children as well as traveling, fishing, hiking and simply hanging out with close friends and family.
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00:00
Welcome to the curious builder podcast. I'm your host, Mark Williams. Today I'm joined with Eric Robertson, the owner of NRD landscaping out of Minnetonka, Minnesota. Welcome, Eric. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's good to have you here. You know, as you know, on the podcast, we talk a little bit about business and, or a lot about business, a lot about kind of the origin stories, but yours and eyes are kind of unique of how we met. And maybe from your point of view, so you obviously own a landscaping company? I do. And why don't you tell people how we met, because I'd love to give my version of how I came to meet you as well. But this one's a little unique.
00:30
Yeah, it is different. And it seemed corny at the time, but I'm glad it worked out. i My grandfather was a very important figure in my life growing up, and he lived in Wayzata. So whenever I was in the area and had, you know, 510 minutes early running to a meeting, I would always just drive by go down memory lane, go visit his house, he had obviously passed away and hadn't live there anymore. But I pulled around the corner, like I have done, you know, 3040 times. And I see the house is basically gutted down to the studs, a new house being built and your sign. Yeah. And I thought, Man, if I just had an opportunity just to do a little bit of landscaping matter what it is to that house. That'd be pretty cool. Right? A cool story of a closure for my grandfather and right. And I call the thankfully you had a yard sign out now because I had my very
01:15
big on my funny little tangent on yard signs, like everyone has their pet peeves. And my one of my biggest ones and always has been is my sign. I can't stand it. If it's crooked, if it's dirty, if it's not in the right location where you can see it. You know, sometimes like on a long street, I want it sideways. So you can see it both ways. Sometimes it's back. And my number one pet peeve is if a project manager or somebody moves my sign next to a Biffi. Or if the Biffi guy puts the Porta Potti right. Absolutely drives me bananas. Yeah. And so anyway, and
01:47
we don't want to come a lien to like as a lien shovels on it. Oh, yes, that's a pet peeve of mine as it is
01:52
now. But we spend a lot of money on our signage. So anyway, it worked for us, I
01:57
called you left this really corny message about like, I mean, seriously, we're both professionals. At this point, I'm leaving this total stranger a message about my grandfather and wanted to work on this house. And you call back, I couldn't believe you call back the same day, which is rare. I've called builders many times and have never gotten a call back. And boom, that day, you had me over at your one of your parade homes a week or two later, just for in person introduction. And I've literally been working with together sense, right?
02:25
Yeah, it has been. So it's interesting, a little another little side tangent here. One of my demos is just time is valuable, right. And we do, you know, luckily have a very beautiful product. A lot of people want to work with us. We're very fortunate that we feel that way. And we have just tremendous trade partners that we do partner with. But a lot of times I get a lot of interest from new people. And I never I was in sales, I still am in sales. And so I always am sensitive to returning somebody's phone call returning an email. But there's only so much time in a day, you can only meet with so many people. So it's funny that because I still do that now that if someone is really serious about meeting, and I'll usually defer it sometimes it's a couple of months. I'll say You know what, I can't meet with you right now. But I have a parade coming up. Why don't you please stop in? Well, I'm during the parade, right? So I know where I'm going to be I don't have to set up a separate schedule is perfect. And a they can see our home. But you can't replace. Obviously a phone call in person interaction is extremely important to me. Anyway, so that was that's funny. So he came by and and so from my point of view, I've been building well now they've only for 18 years, we probably that went home I think we built was 2015 16 717 somewhere. So we've been working together for five, six years, I suppose. Yeah. And for a long time in my career, landscaping was probably something that I personally didn't value enough in, it could have been at the strata of the homes that it was building. Now I would say the last 10 years as the architecture and where our clients have taken our craft and what we're producing, I'd become very huge supporter of landscaping architecture in that it reinforces and supports the architecture of the home. And there's really, it's almost like if you went into a home that had no furniture like if you've ever been to an artisan home tour or pray to homes like the styling vertical, that's critical. That's what gives the feeling that you can build a gorgeous home. But if it's styled terribly or just has really bad furniture, or just it just doesn't feel it's the feeling
04:15
Yeah, that it's not translating, it's not finished products not translated to but I would argue
04:19
that landscaping does that. So the architecture of the house, and while sometimes it is not sometimes it pretty much on every project is very hard. We'll get into that later on how clients budget for landscaping, do they value but But going back to the origin of how we met was it wasn't something I put a big value in myself. So it wasn't something I sold to my clients. So I II they didn't really believe in it that much either. And so I've I've worked with landscapers, you know, it was a classic out of the back of their truck with a shovel, you know, not on time. Never got anything done. Didn't you know, you got what you paid for? Right? Yeah. And then I've been on the other end where, you know, I've worked with some of the most expensive companies, you know, in the state, and it was like wow, that is just ridiculous. They're expensive, and that was hard. So I never tell her to find that value never felt like because I feel like what we produce as a company and Mark dealers, Custom Homes is a very high end, you know, home. But you know, and it's a value statement. I mean, these are, you know, what you value may be different than what I value, maybe we're a good fit, maybe we're not, but we do extremely high craft at home. And when somebody comes to us and says, you know, we want this to be a good value, I want every trade partner to also reinforce those values from our trim, you know, the things that are more celebrated, right, it would be the cabinetry that trim the lighting, the tile things that people touch the fun things if one thing Yeah, but landscaping. We just We couldn't find that portrayed partner that aligned with us and then in walks you and your you've been it, you've been kind of just the eye on or the.on the eye and the cross on the T for us and, and what was funny is we're both Chaska grads go hikes Go Hawks. I was 99. You were 9191. And it wasn't for a year to know that we found out about race to two years and I forget because a lot of my trade partners are from Chaska. Not by any choice but just a lot. There's just the western suburbs in that area just put out a lot of strong business owners and trade partners.
06:14
It started coming together when the first time you invited me on the boat cruise like the seller. Yep. As it was my first time and a lot of the other subs. It was not their first time so I'm the new guy in the room right yet or on the boat. And I'm walking around trying to talk to people and I'm like slowly realizing oh, you're from Chaska. Oh, you're from Tascam thing in my head. I'm from Jasper. This is a small world.
06:36
Right? Right. Right that was on the board. I forgot that was when I met your wife that time. And so anyway, it was just it was funny, because I've often used that like, Hey, if you're a hockey like your front of the line, and just kind of an odd coincidence, but given the nostalgia towards your grandpa, and doesn't seem far fetched that it was kind of meant to be and we've had a great relationship ever since. Couldn't agree. Yeah, it's been great. Going on to the business side of things. I don't actually know the story, which is one of the fun reasons to have people on the podcast is to really sit down to understand how you create your business and how you operate it. How did you start a landscaping company? Why did you start a landscaping company and walk me through the kind of the maturation of where you're at today?
07:14
Sure. In high school, I was working at a landscape lawn and landscape company very traditional, you know, they do the lawn mowing, the maintenance and then the landscaping side very, very traditional company. And it was it was a I was a kid is to make money. There was no real love there for it. When I left for college, I got accepted to a college in Connecticut for oceanography of all things. Ocean. Oh, that is super cool. Plant dirt pit
07:42
from Clive Cussler novels big fan.
07:45
I. So I moved, I moved out to Connecticut. And I came from a single mother raising a few kids and I had to pay my way. Right I went to school and had to get a job to pay for my existence while I was in college. Right. And the really the only skill I had that I could find real quick was landscaping. So I got turned on out there to a company called McDowell, McDonald and painter associates. And it was a design build firm, very as husband wife. And they brought me on it was a four person team. And within I'd say three months, it went from just a grunt to a bit of a connection. Right. So he started allowing me to kind of get involved in the design side of it. He was landscape architect. Okay, so landscape architecture. Yeah, we had that sort of bond right out of the gate. And he allowed me it was super, it was it was different from what I had come from, I came from the lawn and landscape. And this was transformative. Like where you get input from clients, you take their input, you give them your input. And it's first time I'd seen that as a young man, like, I can give you some ideas. And you're actually we're bouncing them off each other. And he kind of gave me some free grains. And I stayed on and he kind of taught me the design piece of it. And I had a completely different look at that industry from working with him for a few years. So I had decided and I was not enamored with the oceanography program, I was pretty young and stupid and didn't quite fully understand what that program really entailed. And I made a decision one, one fall to sort of bail on the oceanography idea and really pursue what this husband and wife team were doing in a more hands on design, build, initiating with clients and really having that discussion. Came home because this is home, right? I loved Connecticut but I didn't feel like I could start a business there. Came home and actually started a business with a good friend of mine. It was a partnership in the beginning. Okay. And we did that for a few years. His life changed course and we sort of diverted from from a larger scale maintenance and landscaping and just I focused on the core which was designed? And that and that's kind of when it's kind of where it took off.
10:04
Yeah. And what were some of your first clients? I mean, when you come back and you start a company, I mean, I think some of the people listening, you know, they either have a company, but maybe there's something that wants to start a company. I mean, what was, you know,
10:13
believe it or not, we, so we were, we're still fairly young, just out of college age and zero startup money, no, no loans or anything like that, right. And it was literally driving around with flyers that we designed on our little computer and printed and putting the mailbox holders and grabbing a few clients here and there, and then just killing it doing a really, really good job and letting that spread. So we'd get a job in a neighborhood that was fairly new.
10:41
I really like their path I'd like to know,
10:44
in Chaska, though, honestly. Yeah. Some projects. Weston ridge. Yeah, that is. So that was like when it was fairly new. So we can we didn't we went in there and did one really good project. And within the end of that year, we're probably doing four right in the neighborhood.
11:00
I think let's just say that landscaping is very word of mouth referral based, like, you'll like kind of like drop a pebble in the in the water. And you'll see the ripples spread. And if you like, let's say you want to call the sack and you see a landscape sign go up and you're doing landscaping, some patios, and all of a sudden, now some of the neighbors will call like, we're, we're building is less so Right. Like if I'm building a new home, unless there's vacant land next door, it's like, you know, unlikely someone's gonna call me say, hey, I want to tear my house down right next to the house that you're building. It can happen, but it's not as common.
11:30
Yeah, it, it was more so that way earlier in my career than it is right now. Yep. So I think it would be safe to say if you're doing really simple, easy to digest projects that kind of everyone needs, yes, in the area where they need it. There's a ripple effect. Okay. When you get on to a bit more, more involves more thought through entire renovations of properties. It's less, the ripple, ripple effect is less for her.
11:59
So I think I mentioned this before we came on. My first job was also a air quote for those who are not watching this on YouTube, landscaper, and I think one of the questions I want to touch base is, is what are some of the misconceptions with landscaping, right? Landscape Architecture? You know, I already referenced someone who was, you know, picking a shovel out of the ground with it? No, no, nothing wrong with that. It's interesting, like, what people perceive, and I don't think a lot of people don't like a city planners, civil engineers, civil planning, I have a friend of mine who, you know, in Milwaukee, and he does, you know, landscape architecture for, you know, the city in for the county, and like they're doing massive projects that are, you know, way beyond my understanding of even talk about but more in your realm of like, there's a lot that goes into this that I think the average person doesn't understand. I think people can appreciate the beauty of a well, you know, and a lot of times you don't see the beauty of it till years later, right. You know, a very simple thing is you know, backless it used to ask as an example. And, you know, my dad built homes for 30 years, and you'd have, you know, Francesca court or, you know, what, Romeo court I mean, I remember all the street names in, the developer would often ask the builders, what do they want to name it after my sister's name was Ashley, there's a number of Ashley liens, and Ashley, whatever. But there is no mark street. So evidently, Mark Street was not I was not allowed to have my name on a street, which is fine. And Ashley's court sounds much nicer. And but the point of it is, they would plant these little maple trees, right? Well, if you drive there now, 2030 years later, I mean, these trees are enormous ly cool. And it is now that development looks totally different. Yeah. And so you know, I can, you can be glad for some foresight in some of your landscaping and trees. I think they call the city, Minneapolis where I live, like, you know, sometimes it's referred to as like the city of trees, or, you know, when you drive when you fly over it. I mean, you can't actually see I know homes there. It's just trees unique, which is impressive. It is a lot of cities are not like that.
13:48
And that is one of the coolest things of I love love going back to projects we did 10 1215 years ago. And I mean, really, because there's no other way to get that gratification than to physically go by and look at it. And that's one of my favorite things to do.
14:01
You know, how would you so going back to that the earlier part then so my first job I remember you mentioned on your printer, so I think I must have been able to drive. And so I suppose I was 16 and I had a, uh, I remember was bright fluorescent neon green sign card cards, and it was professional lawn care service and just my name and my phone number. And I would just go door to door and I would just knock on people's doors. And I just thought that was you did and you're right. And so that's all good. I didn't even do a flyer I was like mailbox now I'm going straight to the door. And so I'm putting the word professional Oh yeah, professional right. Turns out the definition of professional is just if if someone pays you for a service, you are a professional. So anyway, obviously like most kids, you end up mowing your own yard so I had been paid so technically I was a professional. I don't know that marketing to step now that I wish I would have known that. But anyway, so I got a couple of bigger yards and you would laugh at this. I didn't do hourly. I shot for the moon I'd be like and I was better off with bigger yard. So we had a big lawn mower at the time because we had some acreage At our personal home that I grew up on, and so I, you know, do the neighbors and before you know, you've got 10 clients, but these are several acres. I mean, it takes, it takes days to do all these that actually. So that's all I really needed. It's like a push mower, no, no, zero turn rate, while standing one, right, yeah. And so anyway, we had 10. But I remember having my little carbon copy paper book read, write my bill, my bill of invoice. And, you know, obviously, how you track your expenses and things like that are not so much expenses, but just the bill to the client, you'd leave it there and you know, they'd pay you cash or usually a cheque. And, but it was funny as years later, as I got into college, I tried to expand the business, not with more people. But mainly just trying to take on smaller yards. Well, a big acreage yard, you can just floor it, right? Yeah, maybe your lawnmower goes 1520 miles an hour. That's finesse yet lesson as well, the small yards. I mean, I could do them in about five minutes. But here's the problem. I was going 20 miles an hour. I mean, I was just tearing up the yard. Yeah. And I got fired. I only got fired from one job but and I should have been fired because it had a low dip on it. And you need to have more and I just went right over the top and I skimmed the top off of both of them. And it just took them all out. regrading I think I probably had that das and you tell the homeowner that you know well your yard was at level so it's not my fault. I don't think I said that. He was a really nice guy. And but he should have fired me. And he did. So that that was lesson learned. Lesson learned don't go so fast on a big lawnmower on a small yard. But anyway, that was my
16:20
and details matter that probably carried along with you. Yeah,
16:24
I mean, I definitely didn't do that again. Correct. So I learned you learn from your mistake. Yeah. And I remember because I had little yellow Walkman. And I used to listen to Louis L'Amour book tapes nonstop. Really? Oh, I could crush I could probably verbatim tell you any more story you want to know right now. I mean, for seven or eight years, all I listen to I'd have it so I put my ear pods in or sorry, my didn't have your pods, right? I had a Walkman headset and put it in then I take noise or just like big headphones. There was a noise. And I put that over it. And I remember my ears used to hurt after about an hour because of the pressure on your ear. But oh, yeah, I did. Wow. I loved that was my lat so anyway, so actually, I sold my business before. Yeah, I want to say sold for maybe 10,000. It was basically just hey, here's my book of business. Here's my clients, you know, give you a warm referral. And, you know, you can take over their accounts and
17:12
yeah, that's impressive. But that was my age. Your business? Yeah, I
17:15
guess. Yeah, there was no really official and blue sky. Yeah, blue sky. So anyway, well enough about that. How much of your work is is directly to consumers or, you know, business to, you know, to people versus b2b like me. So our relationship, obviously, as a business, walk me through were, you know, in the beginning, obviously go straight to the client. But where are you at now? Yeah,
17:38
we land about 8020. So 20% of our revenue is business to business working with builders remodelers ad is direct. One of our designers works directly with a customer. Yep. And well, that's it 8080 20.
17:56
In what in those clients? How are they finding you?
17:59
A mixture? Marketing has always been a stumbling point. For me, it's really try a bunch of things and see what works right over the years. This is 20 plus years now. So I would say I mean, what we're doing is is a mix of pay per click ad, you know, Google ads, display ads, sometimes some seasons, we do print marketing. And then sometimes we do card decking, which is your postcard and with 30 others in RSVP type pack. Word of mouth. And right now that's about it.
18:31
Yep. Yeah. And do you work with a marketing company? Or how have you? Do you just do that kind of in house to kind of
18:37
in house? Yep. Yep. And I'll lean on a company to help with the graphic to use of it. Yes, exactly.
18:43
What have you found to be the most successful? And has it changed over the I assume it's had changed a lot over the 20 years? Well, Google Click
18:50
Yes. Didn't have Google. Yeah, right now Google was our most dominant form of return in lead generation. But we didn't have that when we started. So in the beginning, it was print print was King for us. Because it's also a visual right? You can when you can deliver something that has a little bit of a image of one snapshot of something you've done. It sparks someone's interest, more than just a text line on a computer. Right? Right. But print started going going down so we got into trade shows. That was when I kind of forgot to mention Yeah, trade shows I've been doing those for better part of eight to nine years now. And now that has that started strong just like printed print kind of escalated for me plateaued and just sort of started to go down. I trade shows I've done the same thing. They started off like just so impactful to my business like they would just generate you know more than half my leads in an
19:44
entire year. This would be like home and garden shows local shows where I would be home and
19:49
garden show we did Minneapolis Home and Garden Show still are actually and then we've tried smaller neighborhood shows like The Southwest Metro show or you know that they're held and I've done a few of those actual Yeah, yeah, that I'm not doing any of those right now. But I actually liked them. You know, they're they're low impact on the on the labor side and the cost side. They're easy to get in. They're quick to set up. They're inexpensive. So the return that you need out of this so so
20:16
I mean, you get one job. Yeah, you're good. Yeah.
20:19
Yeah, we're versus the Home and Garden Show is what we do a 2000 square foot display. Wow. So it's a week build, right? So there's a lot of upfront cost, labor cost material, you're getting materials in the middle of the winter, just not fun. But the, you know, it's a risk reward. You're trying to get
20:36
that how long is the I've actually never been to the home garden show.
20:39
It's It's a Thursday through Sunday. Okay, that's it.
20:42
And when you say up to 1000 square feet are these hardscapes are these patios? Are these fire pits? I mean, it's what
20:46
are you what we're trying to do is take tooth art? Well, this year, it's 50. By 50. It's a little bigger than that. So we're trying to encapsulate some of the more common features or elements that we do. So we'll have we'll have paving. You know, concrete pavers, natural stone, will have usually a water element, a fire element, a carpentry element, you know, because you have to sort of stand out right, so we'll have some type of pergola or beam Arbor, that type of thing. outdoor kitchens are big for us. So we'll have something like that. We're just trying to create this one little like your parade home, you can walk in and show them the home. Yep, they can walk into this display and literally walk through it, touch it, talk to
21:24
Peter making it relatable, really well. People can say I want this or a portion of this on my property. Yeah. Can we set up a time to talk with you?
21:33
Yes. And talk to them? Right. It's that you're right, we were right there. We're talking to them face to face shaking hands, and they're getting to know us a little bit better. So that's a good show for us right now.
21:45
What kind of entry fee? I mean, does it take to get into that?
21:48
It depends on the I mean, they go for everything from that I believe is or I think it's 10. By 10, I say is the smallest? And I don't really know the costs of it. But
21:58
in would they have a I mean, pretty good competition. I mean, how many of your peers and competitors would be at a show like that.
22:06
So it takes up the entire convention center. And a lot a lot. I don't know, like the of the what my space is called the feature garden. So in the middle of the show, there's feature gardens and an idea home, right. So those larger gardens are given to seven, seven or eight companies. And then outside in the in the flanking halls, there are the 10 by 1010 by 20s 10 by 40s. So there might be a 20 companies in the show,
22:34
right that you would compete against or be vying for the same client just saying, but you have a lot of vendors, I mean, there'd be like a paver manufacturer, there'd be all the suppliers that you would maybe even buy from or network from, they would be also at the show. Yes. Okay.
22:47
Well, the vendor will be by, you know, they'll be there because Hedberg is there under store, you know, rockhard Is there a wholesaler? Yeah.
22:57
I wanted to get back to an earlier question that we kind of tangent away from, but what are some of the misconceptions that you find that you either have to combat around landscaping, especially landscape architecture? Yeah, just because it's kind of a bigger question. You know, and obviously, this is your profession in your field. But I assume you have faced this before, either at Career Day, when you're explaining to your kids at some point, you know, like what their dad does, or him you have a 20 year career. So you're clearly doing something right a to run a business. In some ways. It's like, regardless of what the business is, if you're doing it for 20 years, you got something figured out. So I mean, you know, what are some of the misconceptions that people associate landscaping and landscape architecture
23:34
around the bat, we've mentioned it actually already. Today, the biggest misconception is how vague the word landscaping is, okay. Everyone has a different meaning for you know, landscaping, that can mean lawn care, it can be trimming the bushes, it can be maintenance, snow removal, all kinds of things. To us, it means a very different or very specific, right, we are talking about exterior enhancement of your home. Like we look at the landscape that with that when we're trying to provide a landscape, somebody, it is a direct relation to their home, we're trying to accentuate their life outside. We've never ran ads or ran sort of themed concepts of home outside, because the home is very important to people. And we feel like the landscape piece that we're looking at and trying to achieve is really just replicating some of the joy you get out of the in inside parts of your home outside and to take advantage of it. So it to be lumped into landscaping, where we're fielding calls for you know, grass clipping removal. Yep. And we're looking at services or no, no.
24:39
So you just give them a recommendation or say, I'm sorry, we don't do that.
24:42
If I have a recommendation, I'll give it to him. Right? Yeah. Interesting.
24:45
And from a design standpoint, I mean, your day to day operations, how much time are you spending you know, designing are you mostly the point man for sales like walk us through, you know, not a day but like a week like What would be, you know? Like, obviously, I know Chris, you know, for those that don't know Chris, he's basically like a Norwegian version of the rock. Massive individual. He's like six foot five bald Chrome Dome, you know, can probably benchpress your car and he's always great chuckle every time I see him at like, I see him sometimes at the fitness club, and he'll be eating like, you know, a pound of sushi, you know, just straight protein. And and he's got just this what he's funny because all my kids love him. You know, when you guys land school, he has like, he's got this real warm member of us. It's easy. You know, he's just an amazing person. I forget how we got on describing Chris Exactly. A week. Yeah, what is your week? I mean, I know Chris often comes out. He'll be the point man for his. He runs here that guru for those listening. He runs your hardscape crews. Correct. One of them one of them? How many? hardscape? I mean, do you have multiple crews? 550. Wow, that's a lot. And yeah, that was that many?
25:52
And it? Well, because I, which everyone has its right fit, right. Yeah, we try to Yeah, and you've mostly been working with Chris's crew, I say. But there are five and then some ancillary crews like carpentry, masonry, like those types of things. So to get back on your design, how much time do I spend on design? Lately, and this is the direction I want to go is there's three designers, right? And I want to be, I want them to have access to me in terms of collaborating in the office of talking through a design, thinking about how to do something a little better, and sort of being that like a team effort, I that's I love that piece of it, rather than just shoving yourself in your own desk in your corner and trying to achieve this thing, right. I like the collaboration piece of it. So there's a little bit of that there's a there's a there's a bit of where I'm actually doing some CAD work and design. And then it's balanced with a ton of on site, you know, heading out to the job sites, that's a super important thing to me, is to be at least hitting these sites once a day. Just extra eyes, thinking the guy's right, this is sometimes brutal, like you're dealing with weather and dealing with different circumstance very difficult.
27:05
I mean, obviously, in Minnesota, right, it's we've got our it's challenged, yes, it's very challenging. Yeah.
27:10
So the onsite piece to me is important. And just I to the rest of it is is just like you getting, you know, customers customer relation, getting back to them getting emails down when you can, trying to make phone calls, and just sort of really balancing all those three are those three things for throughout the week,
27:27
I can tell you outside of a good value and quality work and your people are amazing, which would should be enough, if nothing else, but the way you're interact with our clients, like I know what we always tried to have someone from our team at all meetings with, you know, our clients, I know that our key people are inter people, somebody like yourself, you know, I fully trust you with the our client, which it takes a lot, right, because we are very, you know, just very high end clientele and, you know, we want them to be heard and listened to and a lot of value. And I feel like you make them feel very comfortable. And also, I love that when you're meeting with them both in design, but also from a budgeting standpoint, like you're listening to their concerns, I feel like I have never met a client yet, that even remotely understands like, when they pick those, I want that pool, I want that fire pit I don't think I've ever seen anyone say get even close to what they actually end up spending. Now they'll get there, because they understand what they see they start seeing some examples, you know, walk them through the process, but pretty much every single client I've ever sat down with, when we do kind of full landscape architecture kind of has a what has to be this expensive. Is that I mean, is that just pretty common? I mean, pretty.
28:39
It is. It can be it's but you're you're dealing with somebody who is they're building a home. Yes. And they're in the landscape is just another component they're going to have to deal with, right? So they will spend the night every time but a lot of times you'll find clients with like your clients, they they want the fun things, they they're on house or they're on online, they see the fire feature or they see the water thing, the outdoor kitchen, right. But oftentimes, you need retaining walls or soil corrections, grading the rain gardens at the city. You need to integrate irrigation stuff, you need grass, right? All of these other big kind of sort of chunk items take away from an overall the overall budget. They want the fun stuff. That's
29:24
funny you say that? That's exactly right. So we're working on a project together right now. And after we presented the homeowner who I know pretty well called me and she's like, Why in the world would I pay $21,000 for irrigation? I'm like, Well do you want a green yard? And by the way, you have like six acre huge your your site is massive. Yes. And she asked my project manager before she talked to me. She's like, you know, Steve, what would you do here? He's like, Well, I like green grass. Answer was a lot of it. It was so funny. And so even today when we were on site, you know, she was walking through like, well, this is just needs an explanation again, I think this is why really kinship, relationships are so important, not only with your trade partners, but also, you know, it's important that the client can trust the person that's working on the job as well. And that they're getting the similar reinforcement, both from the design team from the building team, as well as you know, our trade partner. And so I think once you, once you kind of show them and help them understand and make it their choice, because we can certainly dial it back. Yes. If you want that fun, whatever it is, I mean, the pool so you know, we worked.
30:25
Yeah. And I mean, let's not forget, right, we are in the middle of our material and labor is has never been higher in my 20 plus years. And it and it jumped so quickly. I mean, there are products that are literally double the cost of what they were a year and a half ago, right. And they're seeing those products used in some of our portfolio pictures. It's a it's a tough deal. But it's that's the reality is, Labor's artificially high right now. And some of the materials are getting
30:57
labor will come down. And I do you do? Yeah. I've always kind of told people that like, Hey, if you have an electrician, and let's say, I don't know what they pay their dirty men are, but let's just say you pay him 4050 bucks an hour 30. I don't know what they do. You know, once you give that guy a pay raise, I can imagine like a year later saying like, Oh, you know, we're actually cut you back to, you know, $5 less than ours. So I've always thought that once labor goes up, it sort of stays up and that materials are commodities. Is that not true? And landscaping? It is
31:23
to a degree where the labor will come down is the labor. The laborers? Yeah, so they're generally and everyone maybe desert landscape coming a little differently. But a crew will generally have a certain number of general laborers and more unskilled, therefore, the basic tasks digging will barreling moving things right. Then they'll have a mid tier, sort of second tier guy under the foremen and a foreman, or project manager foreman, those, those, those will not be coming down the cost for those. It's the general laborers understood there. They sort of went through an area or a period where they could can demand more and because of the appetite of the consumer, everyone needed bodies. Everyone needed work, are workers? I do I do feel like that that entry level position will come back down to a more normal and what
32:13
about, you know, I've asked this to everyone on the show. I mean, it seems like I mean, everyone in the world obviously has a pretty good understanding that things are delayed, slower, more expensive. And now we have inflation as well. What are you seeing as far as product? timelines, let's say to pre COVID. So if I was to order a bunch of pavers, for instance, what would that lead time be compared to what it was previously?
32:37
If it's if it's not custom made material? So if it's it's a, it's a paper that's in their catalog? Nothing's changed about it. That has gotten almost back to normal. Oh, really? Yeah. This halfway through this season, it really became normalized. Again. If you asked me that a year ago, I wouldn't even be able to confidently tell you when it would come in. It would come? Yeah. And now, if you give them two to two and a half weeks, you're you should be okay. Yep. And I mean, there, it depends on what product are picking. There are products that are not stocked in Minnesota. So there is some shipping time, but it's it's not like the months and months, custom fabrication is still is still fairly long lead times don't
33:22
why is that? Are they getting? Are they getting in just an influx of people that want custom materials?
33:28
Demand? Yeah, yeah. demand, and there's just not a lot of places that can custom fabricate, you know, stone products?
33:36
And walk us through that. For those that don't know what that is? So they milling a slab down? Are they water cutting it? Are they
33:42
all the above? Yeah, so a good example would be, let's say we're doing a pool that has a curve to it. And the pool needs a coping. Yep. Well, that rather than just sort of Lego are there, like, have these straight cuts forming this curve, we would have that curve templated. And then that template would be made, custom made fabricated piece of stone out of that, so that it fits the curve. Exactly. Wow. Right. It's a really high level finishing touch. But that takes a lot of time, because there are not, you know, 12 vendors in Twin Cities who do that, right. So as the demand comes up for these sort of elevated products. The lead time is just it just grows. Wow.
34:25
How from a, you know, from a subcontractor and employee base, I assume every landscape depending on their size? I mean, you have a mix of both. Yes. And what's kind of the pros and cons of having, let's say your own employees versus you know, having some, you know, trade partners that you can rely on?
34:42
Yeah. When I started it was pure employee. Yep. More traditional way and it has been merging to subcontractors, with like in house employees that deal with management or design. The reason I liked this model is it allows me not to sacrifice on a component. So if if we need masonry on a job, I don't want to have to depend on my one employee who's pretty good at masonry, to have him there to do that, I would rather get the best Mason to provide that service that one time on that project, or rather than carry that person and rarely use his skill, right. And it's the same if you think about because, because a lot of our projects, I like the projects that involve multiple facets, some carpentry, some masonry, some hardscaping, some soft scaping, somebody who really knows how to treat plants, and how to prune them before they even plant them, and sort of really tailor each component of it. And it's, I've just found it's, it's, it's easier to do that when you find partners that are really good at their craft, right? And then and then employ them that way when you need them. It's
35:51
I mean, it's similar to building a home, it's exactly like my opinion. Yeah. You know, the framer. Obviously, he's doing the the shell of the home, you have the interior, trim carpenter, who's doing the detailed work, cabinetry painting, and so on and so forth. I mean, each one has their their unique skill set. I think it's going back to your word before about landscaping is such a general term, someone would say, hey, that landscaper can do it all? Well, there's specialization. I think that needs to be educated to two people, so they understand it better. Yeah, I agree. Even being in the industry. I would say I'm late to the understanding. And that could be just because I'm dim. But But maybe, you know, it's interesting. And I don't think you know, there's a lot of industries that need to do a better job of educating their clientele. And let me ask you this question. So you have 8022 people over businesses? Yeah. Do you do any commercial accounts? Or would that be?
36:41
No, from time to time? The only commercial work we do is when we have a client that we did their home, and they own a business and go do something at their business. But no, that is,
36:52
and that almost seems more like service. I mean, it would most Yeah, you know, like, hey, take care of, you know, this giant,36:59
you know, well, and commercial landscaping in, in large part is really sort of not what it's, it's not creative base, right? It is, it is, we need 1000 shrubs and 50 trees planted at all. And this is what was called out in the plan, they'll stuffed them in the ground and move on. And I, you know, then to each their own, right, there's, there's a value there to getting that done. It's just not my, it's not our goal.
37:24
What if it's like a big warehouse, you could say like, Hey, if I was the owner of a warehouse, do I really want to spend, you know, I obviously don't need a pool at my warehouse. I'm starting boxes.
37:32
They're just doing what the municipality is making them do. Right? So they want you there. They're being forced to do it.
37:39
Right. You're definitely doing irrigation because they want their yards to be green. Maybe not, and maybe they don't want him to grow at all. That's funny. How do you guys handle the winter? So I've heard of companies where, you know, hey, if your employees have to lay you off, they they seek other jobs? You know, sometimes these people they'll they'll do either unemployment or they'll do you know, if you're service work, maybe that transfers into plowing? Walk me through what educate us how a landscape company navigates the winter, especially Minnesota, right? I mean, from this year, I mean, you know, I assume once it snows, you're pretty much done, or not necessarily
38:16
accommodate once the ground starts to freeze, the materials that you're using aren't very easy to work with anymore, right? for a longer period. And then you're done. Right? This is I can only speak for me. I mean, then that's when we're done. Yeah. This year came early, unfortunately. Because there's also it let's say it gets really unseasonally cold for three weeks, and then boom, it's 45 degrees like it is today. I went one day unfortunately, we don't have guys for three three weeks sitting waiting, right? We're laying there they're getting laid off they're going to find winter work, move inside and do demo work or drywall work or painting work. It just something in the trades too. Yes to stay busy some going unemployment. But that is that is the knee jerk of it's warm. Come back, right it. It hasn't it doesn't work like that, as well. Yeah, I know that. But it's good for people that it is no it is and some companies are, are the opposite. They are keeping their guys with winter service work plowing maintenance, and they do have that flexibility to jump back to a job because those guys are just sitting in the shop, right? We don't do any winter maintenance. We don't do any plowing i i hate shoveling my own sidewalk. I am not going to do somebody else's to am right. And it's it's not a knowledge that I have. Right. And it's it's an equipment based business and I'm I don't really have a whole equipment. Love, right I'm not
39:42
would you actually I don't know this. I mean, I've obviously been your office for design and I've seen that in Minnetonka right off of one on one and highway seven there. But where do you have a a yard if they will or? I mean where do you keep all
39:54
your it's a commercial space? It's not as hard okay?
39:57
Yeah, yeah. Okay,
39:58
so they're still subject for us. Oh, yeah, the the winter staffing is assistance designers, project manager.
40:07
And so like right now. So I assume as you're kind of reloading for 2023, talk to us a little bit about how does your marketing campaign How does your design work? Obviously, I assume you have more, maybe this is wrong. They always say you're either busy being busy, you're busy trying to get busy, I assume right now, as you transition into trying to allocate stuff for 2023. I mean, somebody like me, who is a long standing client of yours, you know, you know, I have two homes, you know, we've designed we've done some preliminary design. So you know, those are coming up? Yes. So walk me through a little bit of like scheduling, how do you know how to how many jobs to pick up? Or do you put it in the schedule? Because of course, everyone, everybody wants to be first first, and which not everybody can be first. Not everyone can be first. Right? So how do you navigate a getting the work in design work done this winter? Can you order materials, can you kind of get stuff you don't want to hold on to them walk me through this transition period of winter.
41:01
So we switched to a completely? Well, the non the design side is just working on designs, right for 2023 projects. And we have a bunch of them in the hopper that from people who reached out last summer, who knew they were planning for next year, maybe they're building or just built, and they're trying to get sort of that part of it facilitated, or late fall that my biggest pet peeve in Minnesota ice here is no everyone wants to be first. And no one reaches out in the middle of the winter to work on this. And when you have your designers, undivided attention, right, you have nothing but time. And you can you can just fine tune this thing throughout the winter. They will call in April, right? early May and want to be analyst in June. Right? So and I have tried marketing to people in the winter in Minnesota, no one is interested than my experience. Right in talking about landscaping when it's snow covered in ice.
42:01
I mean, it's similar to building right. So, you know, we have the spring Parade of Homes, which is usually the month of March. And we always say even like in real estate, they always say the spring, I think you know, people mostly would think of spring of April and May right. Yeah. But I think when it turns like buildings specifically, I would say this the second or third week of February, the phones are gonna ring off the hook. Every single year. When I say off the hook, I mean eight or you know, a phone on a hook anymore. So it's my cell phone, my rotary, my rotary phone booth, you know, down the street is broken. But anyway, just you get a really nice day, you get a 40 degree day, it's been negative 20 For a month in January. And all sudden everyone's like, Oh, man, I gotta build a house. It's warm. I need to get going from hitting the ceiling. Oh, yeah, it's crazy. With a house building to yo, yeah, house building is I don't know. But to your exact point is in here's the deal. Okay, I can get you in design, no problem. It's gonna take you three, four months and design a couple months and permit selections will be lucky to start the house in the summer or fall of 23. Yeah. And so you know, and we have a number of people where we just signed a bunch of design contracts here, even this last fall, and it's not aggressive, or lacks, it's just really, that's about the right time to do it. Because now we can let this process of meeting on the front end, no one ever talks, and everyone always wants to know, how long would this project take meaning the day, you know, for building, but I show up, you know, I you know, start excavating from the day they move in, how long is that going to take? Okay, let's say it's 10 months, 14 months, you know, whatever, whatever size your home is, right. But they don't talk about how long it takes on the front end. I mean, design selections. And now for us personally in our business to combat, you know, delays you tried, even on new homes now we try to pre order almost everything.
43:46
It means the selections have to be made, right? Yeah.
43:49
Now in a perfect world for us. You would design it, you would select it, you would order everything and then you would start saying your home would be done faster. You know, someone described this analogy recently, I thought it was a great idea. homebuilding because the process is longer, right. So like the home you and I worked on recently was a 14 to 16 month build, right? And it doesn't mean that everything has to be ordered on day one. Like I get that right. Yeah, that being said, like imagine this, of building an airplane while it's flying. That's a great analogy gonna feel very uncomfortable. Like, oh, you know what we're gonna be putting on that wing over there. We're like, wait a minute, and and you feel pressured? Oh, yeah, totally. Yeah, we're pressured. We're flying. And so, you know, people often wonder like, why does the price of a home change so much? You know, why are we having you know, it sometimes it's we've always been, you know, trying to be people pleasers. My clients want to move in by the school year or by the summer so they can enjoy the late Yep, the other date in their mind. And, you know, it's not really their fault. They don't know on the front end, how much time we take on the front end. I mean, sometimes we had a project that was six months to a year just in design. And you know, as you get into this process and educate the clients, we need to do it. Got a job as an industry as well as just telling people how much time it takes. And I think people now sort of also know what delays, we're getting a lot of people, especially on remodeling, where they're like, you know, I was like, we'll get you into design, we'll get stuff ordered, I can't even tell you what I'm going to start, but we're gonna get it, we'll put you in the queue. And once we have everything selected, then we can tell you when you need to, you know, move out or get a rental, and then we can talk about putting you in the actual schedule.
45:23
Yeah, I would like to add on the design piece of it. Because we get that asked, we get asked that all the time, right? How long should I expect when we're at a consultation, cuz somebody will reach out to us, a designer will meet with them during consultation on their property, talk about what their goals are kind of what you know, what they're looking for, learn a little bit more about them, basically. And then we take that information, and we go back and we start designing, and they they just, as a consumer, they want to know, you know, what's the approximate approximate timeline Am I thinking? And we try and ballpark that timeline. The problem with it is design is creative. You can be I've worked on plans where I've got them design in my head on the drive home, because there's something that inspired me, I saw it, I get it, I just got to put it in the computer, right? There's also times the opposite. You're just blocked. You try five different versions, and it's not clicking. I don't want to show them the fifth version if I don't, if I'm not in love with it, because they're not going to be right. So I'm gonna translate. So that's what's really difficult putting a timeline on design. It's if I sold widgets, I could go the warehouse and say we have 10,000 widgets, you need 9000.
46:29
That's a healthy reminder, even for myself in the industry, because I'll often send you an email saying, Hey, where are we at with this design? And, you know, I noticed with architecture that, you know, sometimes it'll be a couple failed designs that, you know, we don't want to show this to a client because we don't like it exactly. Waiting till we love it. We're, that's funny, I guess I always thought you were just a one off artist, everything you've done is perfect the first time because oftentimes, they'll be like, Hey, Eric, where are we at on this designs? And I'd be like, oh, you know, we're still working on it. And I guess I've never really allowed knowing that I appreciate the craft. I've never really, you know, always allowed enough time to just say, hey, when you're ready,
47:05
right? It's not like I'm gonna answer and say, Well, where are we at? We're on the fifth version. It sucks. I'm not ready.
47:11
Right? Right. Right. But I guess Tuesday it is right? Oh, that's, that's me. Because I'm big on like dates, especially with trying to in part of my job. That is part of my job. Yeah. Yep. Hey, here's our milestones. Here's what I'm trying to hit, you know, let's at least check in. And, you know, we have a client meeting, you know, coming up soon here before the holidays, even though we're not gonna be doing this till, you know, June, July, you know, of next year, or whatever the time frame it fits in. But you know, just so the client also feels like there's some traction. And, you know, I don't I don't feel like we want to wait so long. And this client wants to know her budget more completely. Yeah, before we even start, which is great, which is great. Yeah, it gives them it gives you also more opportunity to design around it. Let's talk a little bit about budget. When people are planning a budget. How do people plan a budget? Do they just say this is what I want? Or do people come to you with a, you know, a lump sum? And where did they come up with that with that idea? Like I can say for myself, like, I don't even know what it costs. You know, I just say, you know, Eric, these are the things I want, you know, for either a model home or in my case, let's talk my personal home, like, hey, I want a little fire feature. I want a pergola. You know, I want a hardscape. Here's my knees that I'm trying to help you solve. And it kind of is what it is. I mean, your pricing is very transparent. It's like you break it down, like per section. Yeah, it's very, very comfortable. You look at it, you're like, Okay, well, that's what it is. And hardscapes always are more expensive than the rest. I assume. That's mostly what labor and materials because there's a lot of labor that goes into putting down hardscapes. Yeah,
48:40
the hardscapes are more labor intensive, and usually the most most expensive piece of the pie, right. They're the foundation of the plan. It's the most important thing to get right. Back on your How do you budget not everyone knows, right? It's because we meet people and they're all different, some have never landscaped. They don't have any idea what anything costs. And we try and help them through by doing through things basically will give them ballpark like Mr. or Mrs. Johnson you want. You want a patio with a pergola and a fire pit, we'll give them ideas of what past projects with those elements, sold that and see how they react and just see if that's a comfortable and had that conversation and our design order has, has budget ranges so that we know we want to leave the designer wants to leave knowing that they've indicated they they're comfortable spending this range, so that we don't come back with a plan that took us three and a half weeks of designing and comes back three times more expensive. It could waste everybody's time, right you got to start over. So it's really trying to educate them on what things what the things that they're looking for cost as best you can. And then being being true to that budget. There are most people will say we were not the company that's going to come back three times more right on purpose to oversell it, right. We're going to try Don't listen to what you want, because everyone's different. Your dream backyard might be way different than your neighbors and way different than mine. But I'm not going to push or we're not going to push as a company, what our favorite style or our favorite elements are on you. We're just going to listen to you and understand what what's going to happen, or what's going to make your family happy with your space. And then we'll try and budget based around that.
50:22
I mean, that makes a lot of sense. From a clientele standpoint, you had mentioned, you know, 80% were direct to consumers and 20% to builders. You would I would you like do you like that ratio? Would you like to be 5050? I mean, what is your experience with builders bend like? And do you see that as a? I guess I feel the business you would like to grow?50:45
I do. Yeah. So I like where we're at with the people we work with. Not to you. Yeah. And as long as I want to grow the business to business are working with builders, remodelers or architects side of our business, as long as it's the right fit. Yep. Right. I don't want to grow it just to grow it. Yep, I want to be almost another partner in their process and and be their access point to the landscaping side of it. And I want I don't have an exact ratio in mind. But I do like the pipeline effect of builders, right? So when you when you and I have discussions or emails or look at calendars, we can kind of understand what projects generally when they're kind of flowing. And it's an ebb and flow thing. So the idea for me personally, as a business grows, our business grows, I'd like to have a more diversity in the builder, architect remodeler piece of it, so that as it ebbs and flows, I still have this sort of a constant pipeline of work on that piece of it, because the direct to consumer is very knee jerk. It is it is people reaching out to us, you know, a month before they want something right, which is hard to accommodate. It's super hard. Yeah, it's very difficult to accommodate.
51:59
Does that mean that in any business, I assume is this next question as Yes, it is difficult to cashflow. How do you manage cash flow when you have, you know, you have let's say some more stable streams of revenue. When I say stable, just like, you know, in advance, hey, I'm digging the house. Now, you know, it's gonna be landscaping. But you also know that a landscaping job isn't going to be due for eight to 10 months. Right, right. So you can kind of forecast out how do you manage cash flow? In landscape? It's
52:26
a good question, especially since we don't have a lot of companies manage it by having maintenance contracts. Right. But to make sense, it makes a ton of sense. And it's a struggle for for design, build firm until you get enough volume until you get big enough. But it's done. For me it's done through diversity, not having just these massively large projects, right, it's having a certain number of smaller projects that are really in and out quick. Yep. And then a step up from that, where you're, you're on a project for, you know, a week to 10 days. Well, that's a very good start to finish. Yep. Well, that that's our cash flow. That is that is we can get in efficiently. Because we're much like you we want, we want everything to be detailed before the shovel hits the ground, so that we can just fit because the profitability isn't uncertain. It's not like hardscapes are more profitable than sockets, its efficiency, how detail oriented, how many mistakes you can sort of not have by being mindful of planning, getting in executing, getting out, that means cash is exchanging that much quicker. And just having a happy customer, you do so
53:35
something that really changed how we did things I don't even know when I started maybe 10 years ago, where I would meet with a client. I mean, early on in your career, you do a lot of stuff for free. And you know, as you get older, you say, I don't need the practice anymore. You're a professional, right? And it's not like you go to the dentist and you get your first couple, you know, cavities or cleanings done and they're like, Well, you know, next time I'll pay you for that. I mean, that's just not how it works. Right? So I don't know where I think most entrepreneurs have gone through this where we were hustling and trying to get work for free where I'm going with this is like design work. So you know when a when you go meet with the Johnsons. Yeah instance. Are you saying are you outlining? When you talk to them big budgets, say hey, here's roughly where I think how do you present a design contract versus like the actual contract so that you know that you're not because it costs you money to have your designers you know, you're paying them salary or however you're paying them. That's a real cost to you. How do you handle that?
54:27
It there's we have basically three, three contracts. They're not technically contracts, but we have a design order. So at the consultation when we're talking budget, the designer will actually present a design order that says exactly what the design process is going to cost. Oh, so there's a we don't start measuring properties, shooting elevations scat, none of that happens until that component is approved. And that payment is actually a retainer for the it's the first He made up the installation understood. And if if they decide they're just going to hold off on the installation piece of it, then it was just that fee was for the design. It was just covering the design good. Yep. And we do that to keep it down. I were not in the business of trying to make a living off selling you a design by charging you a, you know, a really high price point for the design piece of it. To us. It's just part of the process. Yep. Right. From the Design order, it moves into a schedule contract. So when we come back with the first draft, it's usually a concept. You've seen these these concept plans, they're full. They're full, mature plans with their scale, they have most of the items called out. Not every detail, you know, not every material choice, not every plant. But it's it's enough, it's 85 90%. there to see. Okay, I like where these guys are going. The budget is reasonably where we're supposed to be at the schedule contract is now we don't have to worry about fine tuning every little. What flour color, what type of paver let's go and that schedule contract. We'll get them on our calendar.
56:02
When does excite No, it's impressive. The 3d modeling software I find particularly impressive for the clients to see it and visualize it. That usually what happened and kind of that third phase. Third phase?
56:12
Yeah. After the concept. Yeah, it just because we don't want to redo that whole 3d thing again. Right. Right. So that is that the last presentation? Yep.
56:22
Yeah. Interesting. Well, what do you have? That's kind of anything exciting. I know you did an amazing home. Like a year and a half ago, that pool. You did this amazing pool, the waterfall heights and water slides. And I mean, you have anything? I mean, you said people like the fun stuff. I mean, what else is on your radar here coming up
56:41
some projects with some cool steel work? Oh, really? Yeah, I'm kind of a personal fan of having steel Corten steel in the landscape. I do like Corten steel, and some people get it and some people don't. So we have some fun projects coming up with that cooking for whatever reason. I know it's not, you know, it's not water falling into the pool and shooting jets of water.
57:00
That was a pretty ridiculous price. It's pretty realistically pretty ridiculous.
57:03
It really, it's the it's the projects that are all inclusive of your indoor living outside. So it's shade canopy, pergola cabana type space, adjacent to a cooking area adjacent to a fight, you know, like, just family time. I mean, I'm, I'm a husband and have kids and I understand completely, how much I want to enjoy my time when I'm home, especially in this state. Right, the minute it's nice not to get out there. And I honestly, I think those projects are exciting when you're using kind of fun materials and unique creative ways of using them. That's kind of what we have on the on the charts right now.
57:43
I think the word that comes to mind when you say that is lifestyle, I think, I think both, we used to use it a lot. And when we're designing homes, and probably something we should bring back more in our conversation. But really what we're trying to do is we're trying to enhance your lifestyle, you know, the home is supposed to fit your needs, we're obviously designing it around you. But I think the landscaping obviously, you know, fits in very nicely, of course, with the architecture of the home. And, you know, again, this indoor outdoor theme has been very prevalent over the last 10 years. Yes, you know, obviously the advance of window technology and these big bifold doors and sliding door technology even though sometimes, you know, when we have to make sure you're using the right product, especially in our state, you know, a lot of times people bring a photo of, you know, California or Texas and you know, they don't have the the temperature swings that we do. And so you know, it's not like we can leave, you could leave a 40 foot or an 80 foot wall open. But you know, it's going to be pretty problematic in January. Yeah. And I am amazed at how resilient Minnesotans are in the fact that they're so enthusiastic to get outside in for a big portion of the year. They can't use the space that they're spying on work on. If you were to go further south, let's say Nashville or kind of the middle of the country. makes way more sense. I mean, maybe only two two seasons or no seasons. Are you out of your screened porch infrared heaters. And so we've done a lot of projects with you where you've got an infrared heaters, you have different heat sources. We've even did one with you where we had the blue stone and in floor heat and that screened porch patio on Christmas lake. And the idea was that you could be out on that screen porch, watch the Super Bowl in January. And you're technically in a screened porch. But we had, we had three heat sources, a natural burning fireplace we had in floor heat, and we had the infrared Yes, right. I'm kind of curious to see if he did it. I'd have to go over there the bad news of that. Yeah, yeah. Anyway,
59:30
but you're right. I mean that they are resilient. And I think we like we, we cherish it because of that. Right? If you're in California, and you can use your outdoor space, literally throughout the year. I'm guessing it becomes less, less top of mind. And sort of probably forgotten about.
59:50
Yeah, I think too. When you go over to somebody's house like we had that thank you dinner that our client threw us over there and Deephaven and they're not going to their homes. Amazing. There's landscape Billy is incredible. But that night was very special because you're outside. You're in this patio space. It was a gorgeous evening, but it has like even now, why am I thinking of that versus other places I've been there's like this, this unique thing. It's mirroring the architecture of the home, you're outside and you're in this very thing together. It's tying it together and as is very enjoyable. Well, thank you very much for coming on. For people that are listening and want to find you. Where can our listeners find you?1:00:28
www dot N R D landscape.com. We're located in Minnetonka.
1:00:33
Obviously have your Instagram handle at the same NRD actually, I meant to ask you. What does ener D stand for?
1:00:38
It's my daughter's initials. I like that. Yeah. Okay, Nora. So the n is Nora. Oh, like that. Our last name and then design and our D
1:00:48
you have a son though, too, right? I do. He got screwed. Yeah. What is that my sister got streets. Your daughter got the boys getting nothing. Nothing that here's a shovel will mean the shovel and the wheelbarrow after you
1:00:59
Yeah, well, unless I started another seasonal business in the winter. It'll be easy Stearns
1:01:03
on what's his name? Andrew. Andrew. All right. It's Andrew snowplowing Ken McCall. Find him on Instagram. And thanks for coming on. And Eric. We really appreciate it. My pleasure.
1:01:12
Thanks for having me. All right. Take care.
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